152 - From Big Ideas to Real Businesses with Laure Marchand

[00:00:00] Hi, guys. Welcome back to the MaYapinion Podcast, where, of course, I give my opinions on entrepreneurship and leadership for women. I thought it would be really cool to do some kinda different episodes and have some interesting women on. All of our women that come on the show have something they wanna share or maybe a challenge that they want some help with.

But in launching our new site, Find A Cohost, it was really important to me that I start to really tap into these connections that I'm making with the site that we have launched, which is really cool. So today, I have Laure Marchand with me. Laure, welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to have you here.

Hello. Thanks. I'm very happy to be here. We're excited to have you here, and this episode is gonna be a little different. She is gonna kinda cohost guest with me here. So I've got a lot of questions for her. I'm gonna share some things with her [00:01:00] about where I'm at, because her expertise is in several areas.

You have a heavy tech background, Laure, and you are, of course, a founder as well. And you're the founder of Propelle, which I love the way that you spell it, because it's, it's that you've got the French background, so you've got the L in there for, hello, the female side of it. And what we do is similar and different, and I thought it would be so cool to collaborate on this episode.

And so, I mean, we also have to tell everyone, we met on my new site, on Find A Cohost. Yeah. So a great way to, like, jump into some of these collaborations. Yeah. That's, that's, uh, great. Thanks for the introduction. Yeah, so I guess maybe to leave a little, give a little bit more background about, myself.

I have, uh, 15-plus years, uh, background in, in tech, both in big corporate enterprise and startups. And really my specialty was bringing [00:02:00] big- visions into smaller chunk of works that we could execute really rapidly because, you know, in tech, like anywhere else, speed to market is very important, and proving that what you're building is the right thing is really important.

So I've been pretty successful in doing that in those companies. And as I grew up, I wanted to just take that experience to, have something that was more mission-driven. I've seen a lot of women who have a ton of ideas and just get stuck, don't know where to start and end up not launching what they're, they're, they're dreaming about.

And so I was like, I can use all my experience and help these women just launch their app, launch their website, or even businesses. I also work with women that are creating a business, but helping them take that big vision and split it into more meaningful small, small [00:03:00] chunks that they can start, tomorrow, next week.

And it's a step-by-step process that I, that I follow with them. That's exactly why we connected, Laure. Because when you and I were talking, so Laure and I connected on, of course, our site, Find a Co-Host, and we start chatting. We're like, "Hmm, you kinda do what I do," and like, "You kinda do what I do." And then when we started to get into it, we do and we don't.

Because you have more of a tech background, and you have more of the ideation to actual creation and execution background. And we started connecting about that. And as you guys know listening to my show, as much as there are women that come on the show and have questions around that, I'm happy to answer that.

Where my sweet spot tends to live for me is really that sales side of it that L- Laure and I, before we hit record, we were kind of chatting back and forth and exchanging some stories. But for me, because I have not just the [00:04:00] traditional founder background, I also have quite a sales background, I love kind of diving into that aspect of, you know, okay, well let's, let's open the hood.

Why are sales not working? And we've talked about this on many episodes, right? Changing that mindset and, you know, you're s- stop thinking you're selling something. You're, you're solving something. And Laure and I were just giggling and, like, connecting about that already. But what I wanted to bring you guys in kind of this, you know, co-host back and forth is Laure's...

She talks about something that's so important, and I think sometimes those of you who listen to the show can feel this way, and I felt this way. I raise my hand completely. Coming out of corporate America, Laure, I f- it felt, I had so many ideas. So many ideas. And I felt so overwhelmed because I thought I had to have Everything from A to Z completely planned out.

And this is where [00:05:00] you come in, and I wish I had met someone like you a long time ago, because I think that would've been... I had some, some business coaches, because I do think there's value in having business coaches be- well, we're here, so we have to say that. But there, there is. But it's also a value in finding the right business coach for you in the moment that you're in.

And if you're in the moment that you're in where you're like, "I've got this great idea. We're at ideation, and I think it can work," you need someone to lay it out for you and help you lay it out for you in a way that's digestible. Talk to me a little bit about that, because I think that's really where you shine with Propel, but also just from your background, too.

And it makes sense, especially with a tech background, because it's very methodical in how you do things. Yeah. And that's a great example. Um, thank you for, for bringing that up, because I also do have clients who come to me and they're like, "I launched this thing, and I cannot sell." And they assume it's a sell problem, and most of the time, at [00:06:00] least for the people who come to me, it's actually not a sell problem.

It's the very first step in understanding what problem you're trying to solve and for who. There has been a miss there, or they might have wanted to do too much. Because like you said, we, we come from corporate America, where you have 10 different user segments, and you can address all of them, and that's great.

But when you are a solo entrepreneur and you build your own thing, you have to start somewhere. So one, you absolutely do not need something perfect, because very likely, and I would say probably in 85% of the women I work with, we actually change some of the things that they had in mind just because we launch a very stripped down version of what they wanted.

And this comes from this refinement of the idea. And so I'm, I'm gonna take an example. Like recently I was talking with someone [00:07:00] and she was trying to build a-- Like she's trying to build an actual business. It's not a tech thing. , She's trying to build a, like an art therapy kind of business, and she was talking to me about like she wanna do corporate retreats and team building, but she also wants to do mom and child type of interaction, and she wants to have the studio where she can do that, and she wants to go in classrooms.

And so there's just a lot of different users that she wanted to go after. And I was... And she was stuck. Like, she was like, "I don't-- Like I haven't started anything because it's just like I need to get all of this ready." And I was like, "Okay, let's pause and let's take a step back and like what are you exactly trying to build?"

And so she explained to me what was art therapy about. And then I asked her a very simple question, which is like, "Who is your main, like your ideal client?" And she was like, "Well, [00:08:00] it's like, you know, women who are trying to figure out who they are." And I was like, "Okay, first thing, see there is a big gap in between like all the dream things that you described and that woman."

And, and I was like, "Why is that?" And she's like, "Well, because that's a business, so I need to make money." And I was like, "Okay." Monetization strategy is also something I help with, but what I explained to her is that your monetization strategy needs to be aligned with your ideal client, otherwise it's gonna feel, icky for them too.

So, and you don't want that, right? Mm-hmm. And so I think like just getting her back to, day zero today, what is it that you really wanna do and for who? And before doing anything else, just prove that this resonates with this audience. 'Cause that's also something, uh, that we see, right? And I'm sure, Maya, you also have this experience with your clients where, you know, the [00:09:00] product is not aligned with the actual client.

Yes. 100%. And you're like, "Hold up, hold up a second. We need to move back because..." And that's, you know, and that's when the selling is, it's very obvious. Like it's very easy to Let them know why they're not selling and why they feel like they're just pushing this. I'm like, "You don't, you're, I mean, you're just nailing it, Laure.

Absolutely. Like y- 100%." So what happens next for you in that, in that situation? Do you find like it's, you're, you're just kind of helping them really dial in to who they're talking to? Because that's what I agree with, too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So then we deep dive i- onto like that woman because I was telling her like a woman, in her midlife who's trying to rediscover herself, that's like half of the planet.

Right. So like that's not precise enough. Like you need to tell me really what stage she's in, like where she's living, [00:10:00] what, like what is her real pain? Like what does she even feel that she needs some help? And like who- Right. Wait, we've all ... I have to tell you this. We've all- Yeah ... read and/or watched like Eat Pray Love.

You know what I'm talking about? Where she like, travels all over and stuff. And I feel like sometimes we wanna create these experiences for women who are going through ... 'Cause, you know, we, I'm turning 40 this year. I'm going through like a big moment in life, so I connect with this. And women in their 40s and 50s are going through this.

Like what's it all about? What does my life mean? But that's, like you said, that's everybody. So like how do we dial in to who we're actually talking to? Yeah. It, that's fascinating. Yeah. So what happened when you were talking to that client? Like d- was, did that resonate pretty quickly for them?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like she had this 'cause I was telling her like, oh, that's me, that's like, and she knows my neighbor. So like, it's like that's, that's Nora, that's our neighbor. That's her. That's her. And she was like ... Yeah. And as I was [00:11:00] taking examples, and because she knows people in my neighborhood, like I was taking on purpose people that are very different even though they are in that same stage of life.

Sure. And so it started to like click with her. She was like, "Oh yeah, but wait. I want somebody who also is in , a life transition. And actually I want somebody who is a mom." And so we started to refine who her ideal client was. And then the second step was really how do you, like what, h- how are they feeling?

And I know it's super hard to get into that. And I don't know if you talk a lot about AI and how AI can help you with that today. But- 100% we're AI fans here at MaYapinion. 100%. Why wouldn't we be? Yeah. No, that's great. I would caution though how we use AI, and so that was like another aha moment for her.

I was telling her like, you know, those, like AI, the way it's [00:12:00] trained, it's just based on whatever is on the internet. And so it's gonna recognize some patterns, and it's gonna give you an answer. The problem with that is like if when you ask the question, you're coming with some assumptions, it's gonna agree with you.

There we go. And it's gonna find pattern, you know, one way or another. And so a better way to do this to help you understand what state of mind your ideal client could be is to describe to, you know, whatever AI you're, you're using, describe that ideal client. So in her case that was like, you know, a mom in her 40s, going through perimenopause who is, very unhappy with her job.

Like really describe precisely who that is. And then you're gonna ask the AI not how that person would feel, but ask the AI to play the role of that person and write a, an entry in her journal for that day. Like I just had-- Let's [00:13:00] imagine you're that woman, you had a really bad day. Write an entry for that day in your journal, and it's, and you ask it obviously to use, you know, word of like everyday people and things like that.

And it's gonna help you not just understand the feeling, but more so understand like the words that those people could be using. And then that's the key here because that's how you're gonna talk to those you know, ideal clients. And so for her that was like, "Oh wow, I can do that?" And like that was like totally opened up...

Like I saw, you know, on her body, like she was changing. She- You saw the light, you saw the m- the- Exactly ... movement of, of flow over her body go, "Oh, this is how I can do this," right? Yeah. It was like a shift. Because I think, I love that you brought this up, Laure, because I think that a lot of people don't understand how to use AI, and it, it can [00:14:00] l- this is my opinion.

You set me straight 'cause you're much more tech-savvy than I am. This is why I knew we'd have a great cr- collab on this. But I do find it to be biased. I do. I use ChatGPT, I use Gemini. Those are my go-to, which most people are. And I find it to be biased, so sometimes I find myself challenging it and I'm like, "No, talk to me like I'm against this."

Like, "Talk to me I'm like against that." Like it's about the conversation that I'm having with it too to set those expectations because I found it was like nice to me all the time. Right? It was a little biased I felt like, not initially, but as you, like, get to build, like, a relationship. 'Cause that's what you're doing, right?

You're, like, giving it information, and it's, you know, searching and finding what's available, to your point. But it would kind of be on Team Maya all the time, and I'm like, "No, no, no, no, don't be on Team Maya. Tell me the opposite." 'Cause that's helpful too, I feel, when you're honest about it like that. Yeah.

No, totally. Uh, and that's also one of the, the problem. Like, I, I don't know how much we wanna deep dive into AI, but, like, one [00:15:00] of the thing that I see too with my clients is they're coming to me and they're like, "I... Like, it's not growing. I launched my app, and, like, nothing is happening, and I don't understand why."

And I'm like, "Did you talk to actual, people who would have the problem that you're trying to solve?" And a lot of the time these days they're like, "Yeah, I talked to Claude." And I'm like, "No, like real people." No, the user that's on the platform. Right. Exactly. The... Yes. Um, and that becomes a problem because a lot of people right now are, you know, completely skipping the step of talking to actual people, and they just ask AI, "Is my id..."

Like, basically, "Is my idea great?" And, like, "I'm trying to solve this for this pe- these people, problem." It's always gonna say yes. And it's gonna always- And here's why ... say yes. And so they come to me with, like, "I'm sure this is a great idea because Claude said so." And, like- Mm-hmm ... not exactly. We're gonna have to take a little step back here and go talk [00:16:00] to actual people.

Um- Because is Claude gonna pay you to use your app? No. No. Exactly. Right? I mean, like, let's be real. So no, I'm glad that I was hoping that we would kinda touch a little bit on this. We should have you back for a whole AI episode. We can do MaYapinion on AI. But- Yeah ... we can do a little teaser on this one.

But I think, like, you're so right. You're so right. It blows my mind when people are like, "Well, I asked Claude, or Gemini, or ChatGPT," or whatever you're using, "and it thinks it's great." And I'm like, "Okay, but what did your client think about it? Or what did your users think about it?" And that's where you get the actual data.

And I also think, too, we won't shift too far away from this, but I am curious about your opinion on this. I think you also have to take certain opinions with a grain of salt. Because if somebody is not really your ideal user for, like, an app or something that you've created, and they've tried it and they're giving you feedback, like, take that feedback.

It's interesting because it's a human user. Yeah. But if it's not really your ideal [00:17:00] client, then it's probably not... And I'm gonna use my this is where I'll jump in and use myself as an example, okay? So we've only been live for a month with this new version of Find a Cohost, where it's on the user to try, which you did, and I'm glad you did 'cause now you're on my show.

Yeah. But it was interesting because I had a gentleman, I mean, I've gotten lots of feedback Which is im- like you can't create that feedback in Claude. You can't create that feedback in Gemini or like it's important to your point, which is why every message I take very seriously, especially a month in.

And we know not everything's perfect. We're V1, right? I mean, it just is what it is. But at the same point, I had a gentleman reach out to me. This is just one of many examples. You and I can chat another time, but I wanna share this. Uh, he was telling me about how like he wanted to give all this feedback, and he like loved all this stuff, but there's things that he didn't like, and I was super excited about that because it can be hard to elicit feedback.

I wanna [00:18:00] hear it. I wanna hear the good, the bad, the everything. But when it became a non-issue is when he told me he doesn't actually podcast. Yeah. So why are we-- You know what I mean? So I wanted to give that example for people because it's like also be mindful of the person giving you the feedback. And then I had someone, uh, I think a day or two ago, wanna give me a ton of feedback, and they were kind of our user, but some of it, like they had had a lot of user error on their side.

So that was another interesting one. And then there's been some that like have been wonderful, and they're like, "This is-- I've wanted this to feel very B2C to do this. Here's where I would improve here." And I'm like, "Yeah, and guess what? They're the ones that we have completely lobbed because those are our people."

So y- that just as we were chatting, that just made me think about that. Like sometimes you have to kind of take into account though because sometimes people will use your platform and it's like you're not really my target demo, and I think that kinda falls into everything that we're [00:19:00] talking about today as well.

Like who are you really talking to? Yeah. And who are you really wanting to solve the problem for? And the clearer you are with that, the better feedback you're gonna get from those folks as well. Yeah, totally agree. And as you were talking, it reminds me of something that I see as well a lot in the, in tech in general.

It's like people would take the feedback and there are two pitfalls there. There is one, like you mentioned, some users give you feedback and are very excited and like all behind you, but that's not really your target. And what it leads to sometimes is like you're building f- additional features that are not necessary.

So like you're spending time and money on something, like sometimes it's even like a totally different app. And so that's like, that's one. And then two- 'Cause you, or 'cause you get-- I wanna s-stop you on that for, Laure, just for a second because that's not your audience. And so it's like, well, that's exciting and maybe that's something for the future.

Let's nail everything else first before we [00:20:00] go down that route. And we've been running into that a little bit with like podcasting bookers, right? Like We're getting messages nonstop. In a month, we're getting nonstop messages. And I'm not saying that we would never do it, but I'm just saying like I want the actual user to tell me what's going on, if that makes sense.

Exactly. Yeah. Okay, and then the second example. Sorry, I just had to stop you there. Yeah. I was like, "You're on something." I, yes, we're so aligned on that. Yeah. Totally. Yeah, and the second one is, like, being very cautious about what users say, and that's particularly true if you're trying to build something that already exists somewhere, right?

And you're trying to build, you build it better, maybe you're in a better way. Right. A lot of the times, users will tell you, "Hey, I want this feature." What you need to be careful about is actually not to build this feature because what they're really trying to say here is that they're facing a problem, and it's, it's always this mindset of, like, going back to what the user [00:21:00] exactly said.

What are they really trying to do? Because maybe the feature they're asking for, they're asking for it because they saw it somewhere else, and that works for that, whatever other platform they saw it on. But that would not necessarily work for the thing you're trying to build. And that I see a lot, too.

It's really, like, the user feedback, take it with a grain of salt and really understand what are they trying to do, and is the feature they're calling out as the solution the actual right solution for my own app or website, right? Super, super important. Because it goes back to having exactly what you were talking about earlier, having that clear vision.

Yeah. Who is my target audience? What problem am I solving for them? Because as, once you put it out there, you start to hear a lot of noise, and so always having that back. You know what I've done, Laure? You can tell me if this is good in your opinion, and maybe this will help other people. When I am [00:22:00] creating something, like when I first started my event company, I was like, "Who do I wanna service?"

'Cause I was just saying yes to anything that made sense, like, right? And now I'm very clear about that. I know that I only like to work with corp- corp and nonprofit government. That's it. We don't do anything outside of that. Nothing. Nothing, nothing. Because I'm not gonna go do a wedding. You know what I mean?

Like, that's not, like, so identifying that, and I feel like that's helped me as I've built, like, so I have a whole other show about grieving siblings. So in the beginning, and this simplifies it for a little bit. This is why I like to share this with the audience. In the beginning, people just were like, "Oh, well, I have a great product or service," or, "I lost my dad or my, you know, mom or this and that," but I could relate to your audience.

I never deviated from only having siblings on my show, only having siblings at our events, only... And it, it... I could feel myself just getting stronger at knowing my audience for the different businesses I was building. That's why I always like to [00:23:00] bring this example up. And then now that I've got this podcasting space, and also here, like I, I can't even tell you how many men message me to come on the show, and I'm like, that's not, that's not our show, right?

That's not... And I stick very firmly in that. And then now that we've got Find a Co-Host, and I'm like, got all my little, you know, notepads up here. I should take a video and put it on social for that. But I'm very clear on what problem we're trying to solve. We are trying to come up with a more B2C feeling solution than some of the other sites that are out there that feel very analytical with numbers and things like that, which most podcasters really just wanna make a connection.

They really just wanna find the right guest to be on their show. They really just wanna find the right consistent co-hosts on their show and simplifying that process. And so as these new things have come up in the past month, and as they'll continue to come up, we are aware and we're taking the information in, but we're not...

That's not our focus yet. Because until you nail really solving that core [00:24:00] problem that you were trying to solve in the beginning, it's not the right move, in my opinion, to start deviating just to make everybody happy. And I think that's kind of what you're saying, so that's why I wanted to bring that up to you.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, Yeah, thank you for bringing that up because I love the, the fact that you said yet, because that's exactly how I think about it and how I've seen it being successful in the tech industry in general. It's that experimentation mindset. You are nailing down on a small, you know, on a small target.

And also something I wanna bring up, like I have a lot of clients who are like, "Well, but that's gonna be just like 2,000 people." And I'm like, "2,000 people who pay you 20 bucks a month, that's kind of good, right?" So like they... Like, people think you need to have like a huge thing. Like, you don't. So like nailing it down doesn't, pulls you back.

It's just confirming the signal with something small. You nail it down, and [00:25:00] then you could expand. You could go other directions. You could do whatever, right? Like, you are your own master. You're-- That's your own business. So like, it's also very important to tell that to people. It's like na- narrowing it down to a smaller audience doesn't limit you in any way.

It's just proving an hypothesis With that experimentation mindset on being like, "I'm just building this small thing, confirming I have traction, confirming this is working. Once I nail it down, I could expand." And I'm sure you have this mindset too, Maya. I do. I do. And I'm-- that's why I'm smiling and nodding as you're saying this because it, it's refreshing because as I've had, you know, I have a really great developer that's helped me with this particular website and other projects too, but this one, and then also advisors, I think sometimes because I'm a podcaster of, oh my gosh, going on nine years now.

Can you believe that, Laure? Nine years. I [00:26:00] understand the ecosystem and the space. There's a lot of people playing in this space, but it would be easier to open up this particular use case, right? We'll just use for the sake of the episode. But it would be easier if I just said yes to everybody and just get every person on the platform.

But is that really truly solving the problem? To your point, isn't it more valuable to have 2,000 people on your application where they're actually using it, paying for it, and you're solving a problem versus catering to a million people and no one's really re-engaging with it? Yeah. And so when you're, when you're at that point when you've got, uh, X amount of people on there and they're happy with it, and you've solved the problem for it, they're gonna tell a bunch of people about it, and then that's gonna continue to grow.

But then it will also warrant you to evolve what your product or service does because of that. But if you can't get the core, this is my opinion on this, and I feel like we're very aligned in this. If you can't get the core solution [00:27:00] nailed down, because that-- like, you're not gonna do it the first time, right?

Like you're gonna have things that evolve, and you want the, to get that information and feedback. But if you can't take that from that core audience and you're too busy trying, like you were saying, like trying to fix and give this for-- like it's, we're losing focus. Exactly. So yes, I completely agree with you on that.

Yeah. Yeah, focus is so important. Like that's, that's part of the things that, I reset founders I work with on. It's like nail down the problem, nail down the user, and then have a plan that allows you to focus. You do, you know you can do this thing this week. Next week, you know you can take this other step, and the following week you're taking the other step, and if we learn something on the way, we can pivot quickly.

Um, which I think is something important for any entrepreneurs who's listening, right? Like pivoting is not failing. It's actually taking the learning you got and making sure you're now on the right [00:28:00] path. And that's at the end of the day what leads to success. Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. And when you were like in the early phases of, of being an entrepreneur and helping people with this, did you feel like that?

I felt like it, if I had to pivot on something, I felt like I was a failure. So I want other people to know that it doesn't m- it doesn't mean that Because, because failures quit, and you don't quit if you're an entrepreneur. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's... So take us thanks for sharing all of this, and I love our little AI peek.

Maybe we have you come back and we do an AI episode, because I think education for women on AI is really- Yes ... important, and now you've got my, of course my overactive mind thinking, and I love that. But I feel like we gave some good tidbits today for sure. But I wanna, um, go back, and, and the reason I love the name of your business too, like Propel, like propelling her forward is like what I think of in this.

But like you can't really propel forward until you understand the core things that we've really talked about today. [00:29:00] So I'd love for you to share a little bit of advice, just your opinion, as I always ask the women that come on the show. What are some opinions that you have? Maybe you've got couple different sides of it, right, Laure?

So maybe, I have a lot of women that listen to the show that just haven't started because I think they have analysis paralysis. We've heard that a million times, and I feel like that's a core person that you work with, right? They're just like, they have this idea and it could be, it could be their million, maybe billion dollar idea, and they're just like, "I don't even know."

And I always say, I'm like, "Look, one foot in front of the other. You can do this." But I feel like there's something deeper to that. I do feel like it's nice to have kind of a, a plan. So like what would you tell... Let's start with that question. What would you tell that woman, the analysis paralysis woman?

Because I will tell you, that was me. I held myself back so much, but the weirdest thing is when I was, I started in corporate at like 22 years old. I was like the youngest [00:30:00] executive. But for some reason when I had a name behind me, I was able to execute at such a young age. It was something I had to like e- eight years later start to like realize, "I don't need that.

This was all me that did this." So where do you go and what advice and like what op- what's your opinion on that? Like where would you take someone in a general way? Every situation is different, I get that. Yeah. I would say generally, one exercise that I like to get my founder into when they are in that stage of like, I have...

'Cause usually it's not one idea. It's a mix of a bunch of ideas. So it's like, simplify. Focus on one thing in your bunch of ideas that you have. And then start like you, you have this idea, you know probably for who you're trying to solve it for, even if that's not precise. Find where those people are.

Usually that's like Facebook groups, it's Instagram or, whatever social media that is, [00:31:00] Reddit. And post a question about this problem and see if people respond. And I tell them like that's your first signal for one, is your problem clear, and two- Do you have people that have that problem? And that helps, you know, get moving.

And, and you feel like it's a small step, but that's actually a big one because it helps you just, like, you have to sit down and narrow it down to one thing. What is the core thing you are trying to solve here? And it could very often y- you start by yourself. You are your own ideal client, and I get that.

And so just go out there and figure out if other people have that same problem, uh, and understand what you're trying to, to solve. 'Cause that's gonna be beneficial for everything else. So, uh, that would be my advice. I agree completely. I agree completely. And I remember doing this myself with every single [00:32:00] business venture I've gone down, and it was shocking, like, the information that I got back.

And I was-- it would, it would confirm things, but it will als- like we talked about earlier, it would help me pivot really quick too. Yeah. Because the way they were answering it sometimes, right? It was very interesting to me. Exactly. And yeah, it was, it was... You know, because for me with Find a Cohost, the initial problem, I was like, "Oh, people can't find cohosts."

But I also knew that there really was only one or two other places that they could find guests other than Facebook groups. So I was like, "We've gotta evolve and pivot this a little bit more into including kind of this whole aspect." And I, I do this a lot with our sibling grief community that we have, too.

I put questions out there all the time, and I let people tell me, w- well, doing exactly what we talked about earlier with taking it with a grain of salt, right? Because not every answer is... You know, you don't want confirmation bias. You don't want every person- Yeah ... to just, like, be like, "Yes, I want this." No, like, sometimes people are like, "No, I really want [00:33:00] this."

And so it's like the strong convictions, too, against what you're saying or how... Like, those are big ones to listen to as, as well. And so I think that's really great advice. But I think sometimes we are so into what we wanna do, we don't put it out there 'cause it's scary. Yeah. But God, it will save you so much time, right?

Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. And if that's scary, like, then you have two questions for yourself. It's like, if it's too scary- For sure ... is it aligned with what you really want for yourself? And if the answer is yes, it is, then the second one is like, what, what are you, like, what's the risk of doing it? Mm-hmm. Worst case scenario, nobody's gonna answer your post, and it's gonna be going deep down in the Facebook algorithm.

So, like, don't worry. It's gonna disappear on its own. So yeah. What's the risk? I love that because I think, I am a different kind [00:34:00] of person, so it never really bothered me. But every time I have put something new out there That little imposter thing does always creep back up again. It's like, will anyone...

And then of course they respond, right? Because it's not my first time asking a, a problem. But I love that you say that because in my opinion, yes, the worst thing is no one says anything, and they don't see it. Who cares? Who cares then? But don't you feel like that's an answer in itself, too, if no one responds to it emotionally or has a response?

Yeah. It's almost the hardest to deal with because you don't know if that's because of the way you ask the question- Mm-hmm ... in presenting the problem, or if this is really that there's just no interest. So, yeah, it's almost the hardest response to get no response. Um- For many reasons, right? For us emotionally, mentally, and all of that, but then also, okay, is it just because I didn't ask it the right way, or did I not put it in the right...

Or, oh yeah, here's a good one too, right? [00:35:00] Or I didn't put it in the right target group- Yes ... right on Facebook, or I didn't target the right people on Reddit, or I didn't target the right people on LinkedIn or wherever you're going to get your data. Like, maybe you don't... Like, because, okay, like let's say I have a, a prob- like a solution for moms out there, and I'm not even in, I'm just in a group with women, and maybe it's predominantly women who don't have kids.

I'm not in front of the right people. Yeah. So why would I get a response about that? Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and one thing I would say, too, is like sometimes your best channel is actually offline. A lot of people today forget real connection, real people. That's true. And if you're targeting moms, like I have, uh, one client who's targeting moms and around like activities and stuff, and I was like, "You have a daughter.

She's taking like, you know, dance class. Why don't you just ask the woman there while you wait? I mean, you're there waiting for your kid to be finished. Just talk to the other [00:36:00] moms." And she had not thought about it. She was like, "Oh, I'm posting on Facebook and this and that." I'm like, "Did you talk to, like you have a room full of other moms here."

And she got amazing feedback and like direct feedback. So, um, I would say don't neglect also the offline channel. Find the people and, and ask there. Yeah, to your point, especially when you're in that ecosystem on a weekly if not couple days a week basis. Like, yeah, and I think something that's interesting that I like to think about as well, and I'm sure you talk about this with your clients all the time, is we have to be really cautious, too, about, giving those kind of leading questions like, "Do you like this?

Would you use this?" You know, like that kind of stuff. It's like, you know, you kind of have to present it in a little bit more, You know, a w- a less emotional kind of c- I said it earlier, confirmation kind of bias where we want people to be able to, like, a, a question I love to use is like, "Why wouldn't you use this?

Like, why would this not work [00:37:00] for you? Why wouldn't you?" Yeah. Are you a fan of that too, Laure? Or like what are some ways that you would kind of do that instead in your- Yeah ... your style? Yeah, totally that, and then if you already have something built, I like to let people, like, watch people using it, because that tells you even more than any words.

Um- Yes ... because, like, people try to click on things that are not clickable, and, you know, they try to see something that's not there. Uh, so that helps you learn a ton about, like, just building the actual, like, flow when you're building a technical product. But yeah, I've seen this especially failing with anything around monetization.

Uh, a lot of people would be like, "Would you pay 10.99 for this every month?" Obviously s- everyone's gonna tell you no. Yeah. "Do you think 10.99 is too high of a price?" "Yes." So, like, that's an example that I used often of, like, the way you ask the question is really important. Y- when you ask questions about monetization, don't [00:38:00] ask about the price.

Everybody's gonna tell you it's too expensive, and they won't pay for it. Always. Always. Laure, we're on the same-- Always. Like, I literally, I don't ask that question at all anymore. It's more about, "Why wouldn't you use this?" Exactly. "What obstacles do you see with this?" Like, I wanna hear that kind of negative stuff.

Make them tell you, because if they see a value in it, then you already know they're gonna pay for it. Exactly. And you can adjust the price accordingly, right? It's like, but it's interesting. That's great. That's great feedback for anyone listening, you guys. This is, like, huge feedback because I think we get stuck on that, and I hear people ask all the time, "Do you think people will pay for this?

Do you think people will pay for that?" I'm like, "People will pay for anything that helps them solve something-" Exactly ... that they are having problems with. Yeah. So it's more about finding about, finding out about, like, how could this, you know, better serve them? And do that by kind of, like, let them, like, take that barrier away from you and [00:39:00] them, and a barrier away from the project.

And like, 'cause sometimes I don't even tell people when I'm talking to them about a project, I don't even tell them that I have anything involved in it sometimes. I'm like- Yeah ... so I'm like, "I'm just here selling it, like helping out my, my friend," and I'm like, "Yeah, I actually created this." But anyway, that's not the problem.

You know, because a- at the end of the day, you just want it to work, and you just want help to help people. And so I think there's an aspect about that as well. Like, so I would wanna ask you this too, and then anything else you have to, like, add to this, Laure, before we go. But I wanted to say, this is what I have found.

Sometimes with founders, we are really, really, really emotionally invested in what we've created. Very emotionally cre- cr- like, invested, and I felt like this was a good pivot for that. And, you know- With, with male founders, I f- I feel like it's a different vibe sometimes than female founders. I feel like with female founders-- Male founders, it's like, "This will work."

You know, not all of them, but a lot of them. Yeah. But with female founders, I feel like we're emotionally invested, and it's [00:40:00] not, uh, it's just because we've solved, we've truly solved something that means something to us. And I'm not saying m- male founders haven't, but, uh, I just feel like there's more of a, a drive with them where it's like, "This does work."

With women, it's kind of like, "I hope sometimes," you know? And it's, I think- Yeah ... that's what I really love about what you do. It's like empowering them to say, "Yes, it does, but here's how," or, "Here's my opinion on this," or... So I'm curious what advice you have for female founders that maybe feel emotionally invested, like how to kinda take that emotion out of it when they're getting that feedback, because I think for me, it's, I've been creating things for over a decade, so you learn to just take it out.

It's not personal. It's a product or a service or whatever you're doing. But I'm curious what your advice is, especially when you're working with those first-time founders that are female. That's what you do. Like, how to remove that and understand that it's about getting to the core issue and, like, how do we make it the best that we [00:41:00] can make it?

Yeah. I always take them back to the main problem they're trying to solve, because that's really usually where their passion is. Right. Like, something happened in their life, or they've been facing this thing forever, and that's where, like, really, truly the passion of solving the problem comes from. And I've, I did have, like, sometimes, you know, I have one founder that I'm working with right now, and we run a survey to ask people how do you feel about our product, and some of the feedback was, was tough.

And she texted me, and she was like, "I am not meant for reading survey results." And I was like, "Look, it's just a couple feedback. You cannot make everyone happy, right? That's, like, just human." And so, like, I think it's bringing her, uh, brought her back to, like, "Look, the reason you're doing this is to empower women to do [00:42:00] X, Y, and Z.

The way you're presenting it for those, like, you know, 10 people that gave you that feedback is not the way that works for them. But you have, like, 80 other people that said differently." And so it's, it's like leading with data, I guess, also. It's like, "Hey, we have this feedback, but put it in perspective of everything else.

It's not a criticism of what you're trying to build. It's just that how you're trying to build it doesn't work for these people." And right now, to the whole point we've been talking about in, in, uh, in this podcast was these 10 people, that's not your target problem. So like let's table that for now, focus on the 80 others, build for them, nail it down, and then those 10 others, maybe one, they will change their mind once they start using the product.

And two, if not, then we can go and tackle that. Next. But your [00:43:00] 80 people are like, but I mean, it's interesting, and this is why I wanted to bring this up to you because I'm like, I knew you would have some feedback with this as well. I think it's so important because when you're not used to criticism and then you see it, you're always gonna hone in on one negative comment versus 10 positive.

And that literally, you literally just gave that example without even knowing I was gonna ask that. Like it's literally, I mean what? So she had 90 something feedback, and like 80 people were happy, give or take, right? Probably want a little tweak here or, or would have like a, I'd love to have here or something like that.

And then there's 10 people that were like, "Mm, not really for me." And what do we hone in on? Yeah. What do we always hone in on? And so I think it's really important and I do think that again like I think that can be any founder who's not used to feedback, but I do find that with women because we are so hypercritical of ourselves because society's hypercritical about us, right?

And so why wouldn't we be hypercritical? Whereas, you know, I think it's great chatting with someone like you, Laure, 'cause you, [00:44:00] you're able to reframe that mindset with them, and I would do something very similar. I'd say like, "Okay, it would be one thing if this was flipped." Yeah. 10 people are saying this is great and 80 people were saying this is not, not the thing, right?

But you've got the opposite. But we're just so programmed to only focus on the negative. But that's why it is important that we take the negative, we go, okay, there might be something here, but look at all of the, like the 80 people that really are my user. I would be diving into the few things that they really were giving feedback on and correcting that, to your point, so that they continue to use the platform versus 10 that might not have even been, maybe one or two will flip, to your point.

So I just thought that was an important thing to kind of bring up because I think that's, that can be a very difficult transition coming out of like a corporate role or corporate because I feel like we coddle people a little bit in those environments and you're now very exposed. Yeah. And y- and you have a clear path.

Like you have, you know, your goals, the thing you're working on, like it's all [00:45:00] predefined. Entrepreneurship is nothing is defined until it's proven. So it's like the- This, yeah. It's like this. And even then, you know, you could flip because you just d- you realize, wow, I've now got another, you know, aspect or another journey that I could go down.

So, um, before I close out, Laure, I think this has been great. Thanks for sharing all of your feedback. What is the kind of the last piece of advice you would give our incredible women that listen to this, maybe if they're at that, we've got women that listen to, in all different phases of entrepreneurship.

But if they're at that kind of, I, I feel like this is just sweet spot for you, at that ideation phase, and they're not sure where to create, or maybe they've built a couple of spreadsheets, or they spent some time in Notion or Asana and built out some stuff and yet they still haven't kind of hit that action button first, what's some advice you would give them as kind of a closing thing for you?

I mean, I think that's kind of what I mentioned earlier. It's like, don't, don't be scared. Just go for it. Like, what is [00:46:00] holding you back really? Like, just it's yourself. So go past that. Just like do that small thing. I think like the example I gave about, trying to post or find your people and tell the problem you're gonna try to solve.

You don't have to say you're gonna try to solve it. Just ask a question, see if people have that problem. That's like a very simple step, and you can probably take it like today. Mm-hmm. And yeah, that would be my main advice. Like, don't be scared. Just go for it. I couldn't agree with you more. And in my opinion, I also feel like if, if, like we talked about this earlier, if the way you asked the question maybe didn't land, try asking it a couple different ways.

This is where AI comes in, right? You can say, "Hey, I asked this. I didn't get a response." Let AI write a couple things for you in a way that you're asking it. That's where that can be a great tool, I think. Yeah. Yeah, totally. If you do that though, please do not copy-paste what it says. Try to [00:47:00] rephrase it with your own way of talking.

Make it organic. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like, you said it. We could have an entire session about AI and- We're gonna have you back. We've got to. Now that I know this, now we've got to. Absolutely. Laure, thank you for sharing all, thank you for sharing your opinions. Thank you for being here. I think it's super helpful.

Um, I think it ties in really well with everybody who listens to the show 'cause they're in all different places in entrepreneurship. But yes, don't copy and paste from your AI. That's a good one. Uh, where can p- uh, people connect with you, Laure? We'll put it in the show notes as well. We'll have to have you back for an AI episode.

I love that. We'll have to do a summer one. That'll be good. Yeah. People can find me on, uh, Facebook, uh, LinkedIn, both under my name, Laure Marchant, or, uh, with my company name, Propelle. Uh, and they can also go on my website, propel-framework.com. And yeah, I'd be happy to help, uh, you know, anyone who, who needs a little, a little push.

And thank you for having me. That was a really awesome conversation. I really [00:48:00] loved it. Yeah, my pleasure, Laure. We'll definitely have you back, and thank you guys so much for listening to the MaYapinion Podcast. If you are not following us, of course follow us on all of our social channels @MayaRofler and @MaYapinion Podcast 

And Laure and I met on my new site, findacohost.com, so you can meet incredible guests just like her. We have that info in the show notes too, and we'll see you back next time.